The Inklings
This week's video was about C.S. Lewis and his concept of "The Four Loves" (which is the title of one of his books on the subject, by the way). Lewis started a group with other Christian members called "The Inklings" which would meet and the members would discuss their points of view, specific writings, and friendly debates.
In the spirit of "The Inklings" our blog is going to be slightly different this week. This week is going to be an ongoing dialogue between you and me (and any other people who happen to comment). You will be graded not only on your content, but on how often you add something to the conversation. These will not be the usual at-least-half-a-page answers. Instead, I am looking for you to add just a few sentences at a time as this will be more of a discussion board rather than separate comments. This will start on Tuesday night and go until Sunday night. This means check the blog every night. Even though you are not writing as much, you still need to check it and add something to the conversation.
(*Notice* As cute as "Good Job, So-And-So" and song lyrics are you will not get graded on those kinds of comments. You may still tell each other "Good job," but that doesn't count as your comment of the day.)
I will start the discussion with: Can you forgive someone if you don't believe in God?
Grace: I think even though you are not a Christian, you still can forgive someone. If you believe in God, it will be easier to forgive others or love your enemies since we have a reason. God gave us commendments to follow and we should follow them; however, even if you do not have faith, you still can be a nice person and forgive a person who did bad things to you. As an unbeliever can feel same emotion as we can, I think forgiving someone is one ability God gave to humans equally.
ReplyDeleteOoops! did i start too early?
ReplyDeleteI also think unbelievers can forgive others as Christians do, but there are differences. For instance, Christians forgive others primarily because God, who has forgiven our sin, says so. However, unbelievers don’t have God in their hearts, but they consider forgiving as a practical way of keeping relationships with others to “cooperate”. Let’s say that your friend just has broken your favorite music CD. If you are a Christian, you will, at least, try to forgive him because the Bible says so, and also you don’t want to offend him and hurt your friendship with him. I am not saying that all Christian forgives others, but I am considering you as a Christian who meets the qualifications listed in on the Bible. If you are not a Christian, however, you may determine not to forgive your friend at all, or try to forgive him because you want to keep friendship with him to “cooperate”. For example, your forgiveness this time may mitigate your friend’s anger when you break his belonging in the future. Also, if you forgive him, he may feel sorry and do your favor such as buying you food or helping you with your homework. I am not saying that all unbelievers forgive other people because they want to keep relationships with others to take advantage of them. I just want to give the basic idea that unbelievers, who don’t have God in their hearts, can forgive as well.
ReplyDeleteI partly agree with max’s point. I agree at the point that unbelievers can forgive others. However, it is excessive to say that they forgive others because they want to take advantage of others or, as Max called it, to ‘cooperate’ with others. True forgiveness begins from the love, which is selfless concern for others. In this sense, forgiveness comes not necessarily to keep the relationship with others. Rather, it comes from the true mindfulness for others. They may forgive others not to break the relationship. But, that’s just a part of whole concept of forgiveness. Forgiveness includes more than that and God has shown the true forgiveness throughout his reign over the world.
ReplyDeleteOf course,
ReplyDeleteI see many unbelievers who are even nicer than
the Christians. They have "good hearts." They willingly forgive others. If you open your eyes and see the other side of the world, you can find many tender-hearted unbelievers. The only difference between the unbelievers and the Christians in the matter of forgiving someone is that the Christians believe in God and the unbelievers don't.
I think ,sometimes, the unbeliever shows even more true forgiveness than the Christian does.
As Grace points out, the Christian has a reason
to forgive someone, God. He "has to" forgive someone if he believes in God. However, the unbeliever does not have to. It is his will to decide whether to forgive with a true heart or to avenge with a bitter heart.
As I think through, it is hard or even impossible to tell whether both the Christian and the unbeliever truly forgive someone. They can pretend themselves that they forgive someone "truly." As Max points out, the unbeliever might forgive someone in order to "cooperate." As Grace points out, the believer might forgive someone because he has to follow the God's "commandment." Who knows
that they still have "bitterness" in their hearts? No one can see a human's heart.
You can't see the human's heart. Can you?
Max, I will forgive you if you break my favorite CD. If it is the Beatles', well...... I will think about it.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I will forgive you stiil. I can buy another one.
When you are forgiving someone, it doesn't matter if you believe in God or not. As a Christian, you should forgive a person who makes you angry or hurts your feelings, just as God forgives our sins. But since everyone knows and learns about "good manners,” people know that forgiveness is necessary to maintain relationships with each other, as Max said forgiveness is "a way of keeping relationship with others." If an unsaved person can't forgive others, he can't have good relationships with these people. Forgiveness is a part of one's "ethical ability." So, even though one doesn't believe in God, he can forgive others.
ReplyDeleteWhy is everyone commenting in righteous way? For the sake of this topic to be interesting, I will act like a villain... Haha..!!
ReplyDeleteI'll never forgive those who are taller than me!
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ReplyDeleteI also believe unbelievers can forgive others. We have the same characteristics that God has. God gets angry, sad, or happy; however, God also forgives us. God has forgiven us by Jesus Christ. We are forgiven by Him, even though we commit sins all times. We all get angry when someone does wrong to us, but we should not get angry all day long and think about revenge. In Ephesians 4:26-27, "Be angry, and yet do not sin. Do not let the sun go down on your anger, and do not give the devil an opportunity.” Even though we are so upset, we need to erase the feeling of anger and try to forgive one who committed a fault. That’s how all Christians should behave.
ReplyDeleteHaha! Aaron!
ReplyDeleteAh! Riley, you took one of my points. The question was going to be "Are Christians sinning if they get angry?" The answer, of course as you pointed out, is no.
Anyways, guys, think about it. Why do we forgive? I think some of you made some good points when you said that even "non-Christians" can forgive even if they don't have the same reason that we do. Sometimes, non-believers forgive quicker and seemingly more completely than we do. Why is that? Let's explore that a bit. What reason do they have to forgive? And why is it that a lot of Christians do not forgive very quickly?
I also agree that unbelievers are able to forgive someone. However, their forgiving is not complete. Because God creates both believers and unbelievers, His word is for both of them. We are all His creatures. Our characteristics are same, and Jesus Christ died for all. A only difference is faith. Since unbelievers do not have faith, their forgiving is not based on Christ, but based on their principle. Therefore, what I want to point out here is that it is possible for unbelievers to forgive someone, but it is not perfect forgiveness.
ReplyDeleteLet's pretend, X has killed your beloved one in family such as mother or father because of the bad relationship they had among business. You actually saw the happening but has no evidence to prove murdering of him or her. Can you forgive him? And by what can you forgive him completely? Most of the unbelievers will try to look for several ways to avenge him back.
ReplyDelete(I think.. as it is discussion, I chose to think in the ways which most of an unbelievers will think and choose to do..Honestly, everyone who is involved in this discussion is christians.. I just want to feel the realistic debate stuff... Is this kind of dabate??)
Nowadays, Christians are losing their identities as commissioners in the world. Many Christians are living and acting nothing different from those of the world. Why? I think because many Christians do not really aware and be mindful about the law of God and their roles in this world (salt and light). Moreover, devil tries to fall man into sin devouring like roaring lions- That makes more Christians to turn away from God. In fact it is not difficult for Christians to turn away from God, loving the world. They are humans too. There is no rule that Christians always do the right things. The only difference is Christians know about the presence of God and understand that they will be punished after they sin. Going back to the question, why some Christians even hold more anger toward others than those people in this world? It is likely to happen because they have same kinds of qualities as unbelievers do. Being a Christian doesn’t mean he always forgives others. Many Christians, as they live, meet many situations which they have to choose between what is godly but difficult and what is ungodly but easy. Forgiving others quickly is not easy. Christians are not a bunch of robots always doing right and making good decisions.
ReplyDeleteAaron, I told you several times in class. -_-;
ReplyDeleteIt is easy to say ,but hard to do.
(You got my point there, Aaron. It is like taking a test which we already have an answer key.)
In this sense, being a Christian means more than believing in God. It’s total sacrifice of one’s life to do what’s right, overcoming his lusts and limits because of Christ’s namesake. Many Christians, including myself, have difficulties in this process of challenging one’s limit.
ReplyDeleteHa! Funny! You do have the answer key, yet no one has actually answered my question: Why do Christians seem to have a harder time forgiving than unbelievers do? I have many unsaved friends who are very gracious and forgiving whereas I have many Christian friends who really don't seem like they can forgive people. Why is that? Just answer it in as few words as possible. I want to get to the next subject.
ReplyDeleteLet me explain. Ashley, you told me that unbelievers can forgive but not with perfect forgiveness. Aaron, you told me that an unbeliever would probably seek revenge. Rocky, you told me that Christians have ruined their leadership in the world and that Christians have a hard time forgiving because they are much the same as non-Christians. Those are all good things to say, but...the question still isn't answered. I don't need to know how Christians and non-believers are the same, guys. I want to know why it is that Christians seem to be worse in this area.
ReplyDeleteWatch movies. Talk to unsaved friends. Most media you will find show Christians being strict and stuffy and non-forgiving. From where does that idea come? I want someone to give me a reason, not just restate the question. If you disagree with the question, you still have to tell me WHY.
I think forgiving someone depends on one's nature. It is not a matter of being a Christian
ReplyDeleteor an unbeliever. Anyone can become a Christian if he has faith even though he is a villain.
Being a Christian does not guarantee that one becomes a nice person who forgives someone willingly. That's why some Christians have a hard time.
I feel I keep missing "the point."
ReplyDeleteHowever, I will keep answering until I get it.
I think the reason why most media portray Christians those ways is that Christians are stubborn in their belief.
Okay, I don't want to belabor this point beyond what is necessary. I was just looking for someone to say that Christians tend to take hating sin to the extreme of misanthropy. Sure they may SAY that they love people, but when they act snobby or disgusted with another human being, they are sinning, since all humanity is all created in God's image. As Rocky and others of you have pointed out, Christians are fallible humans too. However, many Christians, because they have "Truth," feel entitled to act like they are better than everyone else. Actually, Christians should feel like they are the worst of all sinners since they should have a better understanding of Heaven and Hell and exactly WHAT puts a person into each. It's not "being a good person." It's accepting that Christ paid the penalty that you could never pay. In a word: Grace. (But not Je-hee...just kidding.)
ReplyDeleteAn unsaved person, however, tends to shy away from such "closed-minded" behavior, so sometimes they seem much more accepting and generous. I do think Ashley was right when she said that their forgiveness is not complete. This is because their forgiveness is only on a human level. They rely on HUMAN kindness. Christians don't rely on human kindness (or shouldn't) because we know that humans are not reliable. When a Christian forgives, he SHOULD remember that he is just as bad a person as the one who wronged him, and that Jesus died for all sins--including his own.
The problem is that the media sees Christians who very often act as merely self-righteous versions of everyone else. This fact is why Christians are portrayed as snobby and shallow in movies and T.V. shows. A Christian’s unforgivable sin is to reject the Spirit. An unbeliever’s unforgivable sin is to be self-righteous. The first one directly damns people to hell. The second one indirectly damns people to hell, because self-righteousness hides the Truth from those who need it.
Matthew 7:15-23 has a lot to say about our fruit that we bear as Christians. First of all, that we will be able to tell Christians from false prophets by their actions (i.e. If they say "love" but act hateful.) Also, there is a warning that false teachers will not enter heaven. This is a warning to us, guys. If we believe in God's grace, our actions will be godly. If we rely on our own self-righteousness, our actions will be that of false teachers.
So, let's move on. Of course you can comment on what I just said above. Just make sure that what you are saying is relevant to the topic and is not repetitive.
ReplyDeleteNew question: What kind of music honors God?
Teacher! Can I add my point to the previous question?
ReplyDeletePeople forgive others for several reasons. If you forgive others, you will feel better. When you have feelings of anger or hatred, it makes the situation worse, and doesn't solve anything. Forgiveness though, can improve our relationships with others. We, as human beings are all imperfect, and make mistakes. In our relationships, we are forgiving others, and sometimes are asking forgiveness of them. When you have a feeling of hatred, you can't move on. You will suffer from it. So, people can move on in a positive way through forgiveness.
As Christians, we should forgive other people. The Bible says that, "...forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do"(Colossians 3:13). God instructs us to forgive with our whole heart. But sometimes Christians don't forgive others completely. We might blame our Lord for not guarding us from the things that have wrongfully happened to us. At this point, the devil can influence us. The devil gives us the thought, "Why does God allow evil things to happen?", "Doesn't God love me anymore?" Then Christians fall into the temptation of the devil and turn away from God. If a Christian thinks this way, he doesn't understand much about God's love. Because if you know of Christ's suffering for us, you can't doubt His love. When you fall into the temptation of the devil, and don't ask God to give you the desire to forgive, it will affect your spiritual growth. Then you will not live a godly life, but will blame God instead of forgiving others. The Bible says, "For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses"(Matthew 6:14-15).
We can't forgive others unless we remove our feelings of malice of bitterness. God commands us to forgive other people just as God has forgiven us. To be like Jesus Christ, we have to follow His way. God gave us His son to forgive us of our sins. If a Christian doesn't forgive others, he is just a "forgetful hearer" of God's merciful forgiveness. We have to forgive others, and ask God to treat what they've done to us according to His will.
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ReplyDeleteWell.. once, I had struggled with treating a unbelievers. I knew that I should be humble and lower myself, but ironically, my thought of the partiality between christians and unbelievers grew as time went by. My point is this. Bible says it is better to hang out with good friends than bad friends. I think the ''righteous person(good friends)'' mentioned in the Bible means christians. So, our attitudes and thoughts would have been focused on the actual state the one is in, like if one is believer or not. Christians, forgetting that he is sinner too, sometimes decide whether the person can be forgiven. For an example, some christians tend to have prejudice like, thinking of, 'How can they do that? That is out of a mind! He or She is crazy, doing those kind of stuff!' Because christians have learned about the badness of sins, they hardly understand the committing of sins that people should not commit in human sense. Although, to unbelievers, committing sins are natural, because they had been living in a sinful life-style, even not knowing if they are committing sins or not. So, conclusively, unbelievers seem to forgive people easily than christians, because committing sins and forgiving people is life pattern of themselves, when christians are trying to stay away from all the badness in the world.
ReplyDeleteI think that, the more we try to get closer and focus on God, Satan tries to give us an arrogant attitude, making us to scorn an unbelievers.
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ReplyDeleteObviously, there is a difference between worldly music and church music. Worldly music- in general sense- doesn’t honor God considering its context and worldly performances. The real question comes when people try to find out whether using worldly instruments are acceptable for church music or not. I think it depends on usage. In other words, I personally agree using the instruments as a way of praising God unless people are enjoying music itself rather than focusing on praising the Lord. As my mother used to tell me, a hymn itself can be a prayer toward God. However, sometimes this important means of praising God are misused. Some liberal churches use them for attracting unbelievers. It is not right as Bible tells us. Moreover, some believers not only enjoy the music itself but also try to evoke a devotional mood- which is not one’s true feeling but a fabrication of false feeling. The main error is that one might create ‘God,’ not necessarily the true one and fall into his own world of false devotion.
ReplyDeleteMost importantly, God honoring music depends on one’s mind set. If one really has a mind set only to praise God, even a humming can be an honoring music. With a same music, one really can experience the love and presence of God while the other feels nothing more than pleasing music. The most important thing is a desiring heart to solely glorify God. King David praised God. He was even dancing in front of people even though his position was the highest in the nation. He totally focused on God. The way of praising didn’t seem that important to him.
Anyway, honoring music can be done in various ways if the purpose and the center of praising are totally focused on God. Consider how king David praised the God.
By the way, Miss.stephen.
ReplyDeleteyour answer was impressive!
I agree.
believers often fall into misunderstanding of the truth and feel themselves better than others. That's probably the main reason why christians lossing their christian leadership in this world and sometimes condemned by worldly people because of their wrong doings.
Isn't it one word answer question?
ReplyDeleteHymns. Hymns which praise God do honor Him.
I think I will be overly sensitive on this music question. I just answer the previous question.
I think any kind of music can honor God, if one has a true intention to please and honor God. According to Genesis 4:1-26, we can see what kind of worship and praise God accepts. God accepted the offering from Abel, who sacrificed his offerings with a true heart which pleased God. However, God did not accept Cain’s offering because he did not have a true heart. He only thought that if the offerings look nice, then God would probably accepts his offering and blesses him. God does not care what kind of music that we sing. He only sees true hearts that desire to please and glorify Him.
ReplyDeleteI want to add more on the question why the world portrays Christians being strict and stuffy and non-forgiving.
ReplyDeleteChristians are so strict with their belief that they never accept anything different from their
"orthodoxy." Therefore, non-Christian people feel uncomfortable with them sometimes. Also
although the "orthodoxy" promotes charity, kindness, righteousness, forgiveness,
and anything good ,some of its followers who are "hypocrites" totally ruin its godly image
and campaigns.(Of course, most media, unsaved people, and movies love to capture and criticize this hypocrisy.) As time goes, non-Christian people only remember the bad and weak side of Christianity.
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ReplyDeleteRocky you twit! Of course Miss Stephens answer was impressive! She _knew_ the answer. As did I. But then that's why we are teachers and you all are students.
ReplyDeleteOk, I hafta get in here and talk about music. I love love love music.
Growing up I was raised with similar standards that SCS has. I also went to Bob Jones where they too have similar standards. Most of you know by now that I do not have the same music standards as SCS. So why did that change?
Over time I began to realize that music alone was amoral (neither right nor wrong). It's notes on a page. What makes it moral is the words added to it and the person involved in it. Some of you have mentioned the heart attitude. Yes, you are very right. But there is more. Music is a complete package. You have to add the three parts together. I can sing "Amazing Grace" in front of Church, but if I'm doing it to draw attention to me I'm not glorifying God. The music is great the words are great but I'm the one that made it terrible. I can take the tune of "Amazing Grace" and say things that are obviously not Biblical. In that case the words and the person (still me) are causing the problem. I can take the words to the same hymn and put them to a rock song (in fact, one of my favourite versions of the song is "rock"). When I listen to that am I still focused on God? Do the words point me to Him? YES! Some of my favourite Christian songs would fall under the "rock/pop" category (Look up "Casting Crowns"). And I think they are more God honouring and glorifying than some of the songs we sing in Chapel. Music is just the medium. Now, I'm not sure why you'd put some words and subjects to some styles of music but hey, if you are truly focusing on God then go for it.
I mentioned singing in front of Church. I also think that no matter the song, genre or words if it is not well prepared and your best is not put into it, it is not honouring to God. If you don't do well because of nerves or just because you are not that talented that's ok, as long as you are doing your best. But even if you do an amazing job, if it's not your best you have not given God glory and honour. You have performed out of pride and that is sin.
True story: Both of the last two times I sang at our church here I did so out of pride and messed up. God had to remind me that I needed to be singing for His glory, not for the glory of man.
oh, and Jesse, if you can't get in here and defend your music position even tho others might disagree with you you might need to re-think your position. If you have good reasons say them!! Even if they go against what others say. If you like it just because you like it you might want to rethink your position on music.
ReplyDeleteAnd don't just repeat what I said. (=
I also agree with Miss Stephens that some Christians may go beyond their hate of sin itself to those who sin. Of course Christians ought to hate sin, but they should not hate humans who sin. However, I think differently about this whole concept of looking at “bad” Christians and “good” non-Christians. I think we really should not compare Christians with non-Christians because how much a Christian has improved himself since he became a Christian is more important than how he looks different from non-Christians. To be frankly, I think nobody can perfectly become like Christ and worship God as Christ did because we are sinners. We are trying to live godly to glorify God, and God is pleased when He sees our process of becoming more like Christ, not because we actually become Christ, which is not possible. I did not mean that we should give up because we can never become Christ, but we must try to become like Christ to glorify God.
ReplyDeleteI will give you an example to help you understand. Let’s say a criminal, while he was in jail, was converted and became a Christian. After he was released he decided to live like a Christian, but he could not become a brand new person all the sudden. He might have been changed from the point when he was a criminal since he became a Christian. However, he still has his criminal nature such as his bad temper. Because of his bad temper, he got into a fight. This time he did not crime but just beat up other. He later realized that he had sinned and confessed his sin to God. He prayed and decided not to sin ever again, but he still did sin every once and a while. People around him may judge him because still is in trouble despite that he is a Christian and say that he is ‘worse” than non-Christians. However, when I compare him as a Christian and as a criminal, he has improved. He realized what he had done was wrong and prayed not to sin again. In my opinion this process of struggling is what God really wants because in this way we depend more on Him.
ReplyDeleteWhat I have experienced last week was pretty impressive. Last Sunday, I went to this one church and the service was totally shocking. When a drummer started to play, everyone began to dance around crazily. The reason I was so shocked was not the songs they sang, but the way they sang. Even before they sang the lyrics, right after they heard the drum, they started to dance, and it seemed like they were just enjoying the music. We are very easily to think that we are praising Him with CCM, because it looks good and holy. I have praised God with CCM, and I never thought it was wrong to do it before I came to SCS. Looking back, I cannot say I have never sung CCM to make my feel better. I just didn’t realize it. During the math class last year, Dr.Myers told us that any music can praise God only if we are mean to worship Him, not to make our feelings boomed up. Any music, whether it is Rock and Roll, Jazz, or Hymns, can praise the Lord; however, we have to be really careful that we are not singing those songs, but we are praising Him.
ReplyDeleteI want to ask a question to some Christians
ReplyDeletewho claim that all rock music is bad: Have you ever listened to it?
Some pastors say that it is wrong to worship with worldly instruments, for instance, drums and electric guitars. They think one who sings along with a drum or an electric guitar may miss the point of worshiping and honoring God. Sometimes, rhythms or beats or even words make one’s heart excited and emotional. Those can lead one to miss the aim, which is to honor God. I understand the conservative mind, but as time went by, people began to worship God with exciting music. It does not mean that they sing worldly music. They truly sing and honor God, even with drums and other instruments. If they really honor God, He is happy whether they sing hymns with a piano or CCM with a drum.
ReplyDeleteMiss Straub, you already said what I want to say.
ReplyDeleteLyrics of music have an important role in deciding whether music honors God or not.
Let me think more before I explain.
Finally, a question that draws me into the discussion.
ReplyDeleteI believe that most genres of music can glorify God. Music is made by people, who are God’s creation. Music is one of ways to show our abilities that are given by God. In my personal view, all music in the world can work as a source to glorify God except ‘Death Metal.’ Even though some songs have coarse words, we can think of them as representing our human instincts. We do not have happy feeling and loving mind only. However, Death Metal is different. Death Metal is created based on the image of Hell. This genre has a lyric of death, disease, and murdering. I doubt that people who are listening to Death Metal are Christians.
I agree with Riley that one’s heart matters most when it comes to music. In other words, every kind of music can theoretically honor God if one is truly willing to honor Him. However, that is just idealistic, and in fact, no one can perfectly honor God through any music because we are not perfect. According to Genesis 4:22-26, Jabal, a son of Lamech, created music, but he did not created it to honor God originally because the Bible says that people before Enosh’s generation did not seek God. It was not until later when Christians took some of music and used it to honor God. Jabal probably created it to please mankind. Because music is not originated to honor God, if we too concentrate on it, any kind of music will drive us away from God, even hymns! Though, not all music drives us away from God in same rate.
ReplyDeleteSince I have to choose one kind of music, I would say hymns are the best music to honor God. I did not mean that other kinds of music, such as rock and jazz, are bad, but they are more tended to “make our feelings boomed up” as Grace mentioned. However, lyrics in hymns mostly come from the Bible, and their rhythm is usually peaceful and quiet. These facts make hymns less attractive to us; therefore, we become less fallible to temptation to just enjoy the music and more able to honor God.
ReplyDeleteThe point of argument is not whether using CCM to worship God is appropriate or not. It does not matter whether guitar and drum are suitable instruments to worship God or not. The importance is that whether God is pleased or not when receiving those kinds of worships, such as CCM.
ReplyDeleteImagine yourself. You lost your parents. For the funeral, you sent letters to close friends and people of you and your parents. At the funeral day, everyone came with black dress. However, one person came with bright red clothe. How would you feel? Would you feel happy? Would you be pleased that the person came with bright red clothe? Obviously, you would be upset. You would insult the person for the inappropriate color. You would wish that person to leave soon. To be specific, the outside form annoyed you.
The above illustration was actually happened not long ago. The famous Korean celebrity Ahn-Jae-Hwan, committed suicide this September. At the funeral, his close acquaintance, Nancy Lang, came with bright orange dress. Nancy Lang is the famous artist who received the master degree in Hongik University. Explanation for her odd behavior, she said that it was the form of art of mourning the dead man. Maybe, she really wanted to express her condolence through the bright orange dress. However, despite of her intention, she was criticized for wearing the inappropriate clothe at the funeral. The public and family did not care whether Nancy Lang really had the intention to mourn the death of Ahn-Jae-Hwan, because her oddity was so ridiculous.
Nancy Lang's comment was considered as excuse to the family of Ahn-Jae-Hwan. Moreover, her oddity made the family angry. From the illustration of Nancy Lang, I want to ask one question.
What is the difference between Nancy Lang and us?
For my consideration, there is no difference. Playing drum and guitar to worship God may seem to be insignificant. It is just another form of worship and culture. However, we should be mindful that we sing and pray for God, not for ourselves. In another word, we should rather regard that whether God will be pleased by our music or not. We should sing the music that what God will be pleased not what we will be pleased. The reason Nancy Lang was castigated was she only considered herself. She did not regard the family of the dead man. Moreover, her mistake is also applied to us that we should think of God, not of ourselves. Rock&Roll and CCM are types of music that we want to sing, not what God want to listen. People say that it is better to use Rock&Roll because classic form is too boring. What they say is just as same as what Nancy Lang said. It is just an excuse. If we constantly worship him through Rock&Roll that we favor, God will consider us as how the family of Ahn-Jae-Hwan regarded Nancy Lang.
-Haven't you ever thought of God being displeased by your inappropriate form of worship and praising? Remember, the point is what God likes, not what we like.
I think not all kind of music honors God, but the music which speaks of the Holy characteristics of God. It has to reveal who God is and what He wants. The music has to be focus on God, and His glory. God should be exalted by the words of music. In order for music to give honor to God, it must be used to lift up the Lord, not the music itself. The music shouldn't be exciting itself, but should focus on God's work and be thankful. Style of music or its form shouldn't divert God's message and His work. The Bible says, "And when he had consulted with the people, he appointed those who should sing to the LORD, and who should praise the beauty of holiness, as they went out before the army and were saying: Praise the Lord, For His mercy endures forever" (2 Chronicles 20:21). Music has to help to worship God, not our own selves. Worldly music pleasures the flesh and encourages worship of the world, but godly music has to have the Biblical message and the many great He has done. We should praise these. According to Isaiah 12:5, "Sing to the LORD, For He has done excellent things: This is known in all the earth."
ReplyDeleteSorry I took your answer Jesse (=. But maybe you can answer this then:
ReplyDeleteYou want to ask some Christians who don't like Rock (think it's wrong) if they have ever listened to it. What would you say to those who have heard it (in more than just a store; actual listening to it. Maybe they listened to it as a kid or something).
Now I'm off to write a Chemistry test. (=
Max, I liked your point about Jabal; however, God does like music as exemplified in Revelation and the Psalms. There will be choirs in Heaven. God likes music. Check it out.
ReplyDeleteHenry, I'm not sure your analogy works in all situations. That might be a Korean thing. I know plenty of people who have worn colors to funerals (myself included), and no one cared. I do understand your point about God having methods for music. Can you give some references?
Max, I'm not sure if you were disagreeing with me or someone else when you spoke about "good" and "bad" Christians. It seemed like you were saying you were disagreeing, but I don't quite understand.
Rocky, it's not that I knew the answer, it's that I answered the question! That's all I wanted people to do! Now people are, so that's good. Always be ready to give an answer (I Peter 3:15).
Jesse, there was a time shortly after high school when I really turned to music for solace. My parents had just gotten divorced, and I was questioning a lot of things I'd learned as a child about God, music, theology, rules, etc.. I really had to pray about not making music an idol. When I was little, I used to think about what two things I would grab if my house were on fire (that's the subjunctive "were" for those of you who think I just violated subject/verb agreement!). Back then, the answer was my Bible and my blanket. But as a teenager, I used to stress out, because I LOVED my BOOKS and BOOKS of those big 200-300 cd cases full of cds. How would I grab them all and still make it out of the house alive? Would life be worth living if I got out without them? Seriously. These were my thoughts. I totally laugh about it now, because it's really stupid to love anything that much, you know? Even your Bible can become an idol! If your house is burning down, you can only take with you what is most important. Fortunately, if you are saved, the Holy Spirit is always with you, and so you already have that "one most important thing." (And you can re-buy your Bible later!)
Jerry, if the question is about God . . . it SHOULD draw you into the question. I understand your point about Death Metal, though. However, consider this, guys: the older generation's view of music is much the same as Jerry's. All the music up until the 40s and 50s was either classical or jazz. Then--BOOM--Rock'n'Roll came on the scene because it gave teenagers the chance to go crazy after the war. If any of you have studied that time period in Miss Weldy's classes, then you will know that it was a SUPER-stressful time in which to live. The Great Depression still had it's after-effects. World War II and then the following big wars left a lot of people questioning the point of life, happiness, God, etc.. Then Rock'n'Roll happened. Kids had the chance, not only to jump around and go crazy when Elvis and the Beatles came on the stage, but they also started having sex and doing drugs. Many people still associate Rock'n'Roll with sex and drugs (hence the phrase "Sex, drugs, and Rock'n'Roll"). So to older people especially, when they see younger people using this music to honor God, they really see the situation much the same as Jerry sees Death Metal. You know? What do you think?
Music itself is never against God; rather
ReplyDeleteit honors God. Every music is made by God's creations such as guitar, piano , violin, and drum. (Even though they are not directly created by God, human who is a God's direct creation invented them.) However, I can find many lyrics which oppose God or are against the God's standard. Especially, "Death Metal" as Jerry mentions and "Rap and Hip-hop" use those lyrics in almost every songs.
Because of such anti-God lyrics, many Christians argue that only music that they have to listen is hymns and classics. (Obviously, the lyrics of
hymns praise God; classics have no lyrics.) Also, the Christians blame rock and other kinds of music because they are written by non-Christians. (Many classics are written by the non-Christians though.) Yes, it's true that many genres of music are created by the non-Christian artists and bands. However, while they oppose God by their lyrics, ironically their melodies and sounds convey how music, a God's creation, can be evolved fantastically by the human, God's creature. Their innovative challenges, geniuses,
and efforts actually honor God even though they might be intended to oppose Him.
Music itself does honor God except those that are not based on a beauty and love of the music but on a hatred, destruction, curse, and Satan.
The lyrics from human's rebellious heart hinder music from honoring Him.
Every music can honor God if one does not place it above God.
(I don't write about a heart attitude since everyone mentions it.)
Answer to Miss.Straub's question..
ReplyDeleteI believe that it depends on person's preference. Personally, I detest country music. It does not mean that country music does not glorify God. We cannot love everything on the earth. If someone says that he does not like Rock and asserts that Rock music does not glorify God, I will not strongly protest against him because I respect other's opinion. However, I will tell him that we all have different perspectives, and you should respect others' preferences too.
Teacher, I really turn to music for solace.
ReplyDeleteI agree what Jamie said that not all kind of music honors God. As time goes by, music has been developed. Worldly music and godly music is different. However, nowadays, even godly music is like worldy music. The words are different, but the style become same. The most important thing we must not be confused is that the music is for God, not for our feeling.
ReplyDeleteMusic is pretty attractive. It has fast rhythm and tempo, melody, mood, etc. When music stimulates our feeling, we must control ourselves so that we listen to the music for only God, not for our feeling. If we go that way to enjoy, it is wrong, because we do not praise Him with our true hearts.
Your comment on a house on fire reminds me a conversation with my friend. My friend asked me
ReplyDeletethat if your house were on fire, what CD would you grab and escape? I with joking answered that I would grab the Beatles 1, the collection of the No.1 singles. I didn't have much CDs that time. If he asks me now, I can't answer.
Hahahaha, an old memory.
Jerry, thank you for answering the Miss Straub's question. I don't have enough time to think about it right now.
ReplyDeleteMiss, your comment on Jerry reminds me
ReplyDelete"the Day the Music Died."
One of the most inconsolable incidents in rock history along with the incident of 1970.
whatever!guys
ReplyDeleteI'm going to bed
good night, especially miss stephen.